Not that it matters – he talks about the Serapeum in the present tense, but refers to the libraries in the past tense. The clan were part of the, The Scottish MacDonald Clan claims descent from. Erroneous ideas that are popular get plenty of upvotes, regardless of how stupid they are. I see the “Cult of a Nice” turning people into idiots everyday. Hugh stayed in Ulster as the Earl for another five years. This estimate is presumably based on the traditional identification of the library with the rooms behind the northern stoa in the sanctuary of Athena Polias. The only mention of the Mouseion after this is found in a late source, the tenth century Byzantine encyclopaedia called the Suda, which describes the fourth century philosopher Theon as “the man from the Mouseion“, though it is hard to tell exactly what this means. Obviously this was too much for non-Greeks to handle. You are ridiculous. 1427). Primo Levi, Italian author of If this is a man (1947) — “a pillar of Holocaust literature” according to Wikipedia —, wrote a short fictional story titled “un testamento”, consisting of the last recommendation of a member of the guild of the “tooth-pullers” to his son. This is what philosophy is. In addition, for that matter, it is completely absurd to assume that the only Hellenistic writers collected, would be those who are known to us today. At this time, the barrister Charles Henry O'Neill of the O'Neills of the Feevah, descendant of the last tanasite of Clandeboye, Sir Henry's uncle Con Mac Brian O'Neill, became officially recognized as The O'Neill Clanaboy. This Chief's group met in 2007 to commemorate and retrace the Flight of the Earls, in 2010 outside Paris to announce a new, global clan organization that has the goal of constructing an O'Neill museum in Ulster as a central repository for all the family artifacts spread across the world. Art Cosgrove (2008); "A New History of Ireland, Volume II: Medieval Ireland 1169-1534". After nearly a decade of warfare with the English forces in Ireland, Hugh O'Neill, Earl of Tyrone, surrendered in 1603, just days after the death of his enemy Queen Elizabeth. Tulio was promoted to Field Marshal in charge of the Royal Guard in 1828 and it was he who made the public announcement of the birth of a daughter to the King in 1830, namely the future Isabel II of Spain. One of the odder elements of the New Atheist myths about the Great Library is the strange idea that its (supposed) destruction somehow singlehandedly wiped out the (alleged) advanced scientific knowledge of the ancient world in one terrible cataclysm. Dio Cassius gives a slightly longer account: After this many battles occurred between the two forces both by day and by night, and many places were set on fire, with the result that the docks and the storehouses of grain among other buildings were burned, and also the library, whose volumes, it is said, were of the greatest number and excellence. But none of the new Atheist talk about that?? Really nice piece – many thanks. Not only does this turn the site into more of an echo chamber but it really harms the quality of answers and feedback. Ms. 5885 (N.L.I. V, Ch. Significantly, writing around 378 AD, Ammianus Marcellinus gave a detailed description of the Serapeum and mentions its libraries using the past tense: In here have been valuable libraries and the unanimous testimony of ancient records declares that seven hundred thousand books, brought together by the unremitting energy of the Ptolemies, were burned in the Alexandrine War when the city was sacked under the dictator Caesar. Shane MacBrien O'Neill changed the name to Shane's Castle in 1722. Count O'Nelley of the Austro-Hungarian Army (circa 1750) is of this line and from the MacShanes, as are the O'Neills of the Feeva. Most of the expressions of outrage and hatred against the “religious barbarians” quoted above draw, directly or indirectly, on Sagan’s account. Conn wanted to be named the Earl of Ulster, but Henry refused that royal honor out of spite for Conn's previous warfare against his crown. Many modern people, including modern scientists, hear about the Greeks discussing motion or “atoms” or doing geometry to measure the circumference of the Earth or the distance to the Sun and assume that they were doing “science” in the modern sense of the word. Tbeir “Be scrupulously nice to passive aggressive trolls and complete lunatics” policy is pretty annoying and their attitude that all views are somehow equally valid means that site can simply be a pooling of ignorance. The O'Neills hold that their ancestors were kings of Ailech during the Early Middle Ages, as descendants of Niall of the Nine Hostages. Which is why I keep saying the evidence is circumstantial. See more. Once you have and absolute truth, revealed by God or dreamed, and wether there is a God not, deep thinkingeis impossible. Do you not think that the pagan emperor Julian, who founded the library in Constantinople, would have said that George took books from the Serapeum also (let alone the entire library), if George had actually done this? No doubt Roger would have loved to have this example for his 2002 piece on the library of Alexandria. Art, his third son, was King of Tyrone 1509–1514. The line that descended from Mathew kept the Baron of Dungannon as one of its junior titles at least through the death of Don Eugenio O'Neill, Conde de Tiron in 1695. This is nonsense. “It was the largest library in the ancient world, containing over 700,000 books.”. 320–325. Sorry, link is at https://amazingstories.com/2021/03/amazing-histories-winter-1929-gernsbacks-last-quarter/, Your email address will not be published. This O'Neill branch is related to the O'Neill of Tyrone through King Eoghan Mor, circa 1432–1436. Roman aristocrats and rulers also included the establishment of substantial libraries as part of their civic service. [32] Hugh McShane O'Neill reigned as chief until 1622 and his sons and grandsons served as the chieftains of the family and were active in the wars and politics of Ulster, Ireland, and Spain for the next two centuries.[33]. Concerning possible books/scrolls in translation, was the Alexandrian library even an attempt to amass “accumulated knowledge ” across ancient cultures? 6. This is also a reason why no scholarly publication in the field ever asserted that George did away with the library in 356. So we can say that the Great Library was an extensive collection of books associated with the famous institute of learning and research that was the shrine of the Muses in Alexandria. As a group they were very young. Chick-fil-A is expected to open another metro Birmingham restaurant near the end of March.… Whenever that was, it was clearly before the destruction of the Serapeum, which he describes in the persent tense. In January 2014 someone posted the meme above to the Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science page on Facebook. While Charles Henry assumed the title, the Clandeboye O'Neill estate was passed to William Chichester through his grandmother Mary O'Neill – a move highly disputed. In a study begun in 2002, Patrick Guinness funded Trinity College, Dublin to conduct a DNA study on the O'Neil's of Ulster, to include the MacShane family. Even this is uncertain, however, given that Demetrios actually backed one of Philadelphos’ rivals as successor to the older king and so died in internal exile soon afterwards. Please don’t misunderstand- I’m not a New Atheist, have no goal to reach any mythical number of books, admit my lack of knowledge about the library at Alexandria is nearly complete, and didn’t even know this was a “thing” with atheists. Then there is the archaeological evidence that indicates that the Library of Pergamon held c. 30,000 scrolls. 1426) and British Museum, Harl. His old friend, Doc Holliday, is also there. Carrier assures his online fan club “[a]ll he describes is the raid on its pagan statues, and some vague looting otherwise. Hugh was elected as their chief, and that O'Neill branch has since forth taken on the "MacShane" surname as an honorific for their loyalty to Shane O'Neill and to his battling sons. This continued under the Romans in the first century AD, with Tiberius Claudius Balbilus being awarded the post by Claudius, though he at least was something of a scholar if not a leading intellect. Their eldest son, João O'Neill (Shane O'Neill), was born in Richhill Village in the parish of Kilmore, Tyrone, and died in Santos o Velho, Lisbon, on 21 January 1788. The heir to the family's Mayo estate was Con's son Henry, who was a minor and had been sent to France for his education. HE 3.3), which is clear that George took “images, votive offerings, and such other consecrated apparatus” (the term “ransacked” is a modern invention).”. The term “rival” is not a very exact one. People chose the Jewish God because the Greek Gods left humans much to use their brains to solve their problems. Hello, I clicked on this link from BAS; what a great find! The Serapeum was always a temple and was not “reconsecrated” to anything. 4, Dec. 2002, pp. Tim O’Neill’s forthright blog does a valuable job in keeping us all honest, and reminding us that historical evidence rarely behaves as one might want it to.” –, A. G. Leventis Professor of Greek Culture at the University of Cambridge, “A brilliantly erudite blog that stands sentinel against the wish-fulfilment and tendentiousness to which atheists, on occasion, can be no less prey than believers”,  – Tom Holland, best-selling history writer, “Tim O’Neill’s blog is a fantastic place to turn for critical investigation of commonly-held assumptions about religion in the ancient world.”,  – Professor James F. McGrath, Butler University, “Tim O’Neill is a known liar …. There was some translation of non-Hellenic works into Greek in Greek libraries and the translation of the Jewish Bible into the Septuagint is the most famous example of this. 1449-67, James Hannam, “The Foundation and Loss of the Royal and Serapeum Libraries of Alexandria” (bede.org.uk). And you’re ignoring the context, where it is in his interest to assure Edicius that he has extensive knowledge of George’s collection to ensure he is not cheated out of any books. He was the titular head of the Clanaboy O'Neill dynasty, whose family have been in Portugal ever since. Assuming the enormous number of non-Greek works required to get anywhere near “500,0000 scrolls” based on little more than an assumption that the Greeks of Egypt would be more open to “barbarian” works than Greeks elsewhere is pretty hopeful stuff. Upon the death of Shane, his tanist and cousin, Turlough Luineach O'Neill became the paramount Ulster chief. Of these, a full 245 are not about pagan statues etc, but are devoted wholly to detailed denigration of the ignorant Christian monks who destroyed the temple. In 391 AD the Serapeum was indeed torn down by Roman soldiers and a Christian mob and it is here, finally, that we find the seed of the myth. What’s worse is that the site’s moderation isn’t consistent and often very biased. The O' Neills in Spain, Spanish Knights of Irish Origin, Destruction by Peace.  This is despite the fact that both the Great Library and its daughter library in the Serapeum had ceased to exist by her time. Context matters. This was spurred by the 1537 Rising of Silken Thomas Fitzgerald. Arturo became a Lieutenant Colonel on 17 August 1828 in Bayamón, Puerto Rico and inherited the title of Marques Del Norte from his uncle. Sozomen’s account details what happened next: They killed many of the Christians, wounded others, and seized the Serapion, a temple which was conspicuous for beauty and vastness and which was seated on an eminence. In the beginning of the 18th century Felix O'Neill, senior male in linear descent of the line of Brian Ballach O'Neill, Niall Mór O'Neill's second eldest son, was dispossessed of all his estate through the confiscation applied via the Penal Laws, which led him to emigrate to France.  Of the others Sagan mentions, Euclid and Herophilos may have studied there, depending on when the Mouseion was established and Dionysius of Thrace is another maybe, though more likely. The O'Neill lineage claims descent from Niall Glúndub, a 10th-century king of Ailech as well as High King of Ireland. Given that around 40% of his account is taken up with this scorning and mocking of these monks, it is still very strange that this scholar neglects to mention in his condemnation that these ignorant oafs also happened to destroy one of the best libraries in the world. This article and a previous poster raise a question for me. Angry at this compromise, as the soldiers began to carry out the order, the Christian mob joined in the destruction, and made sure the great idol of Serapis was also destroyed. The only problem is … it never happened. For seven years they battled Sir Turlough O'Neill, the recognized O'Neill Mor at the time, and the rising Baron Dungannon and eventually Earl of Tyrone, Hugh Rua O'Neill. I’m assuming the nature of the hordes simply adapts to fashion. Indeed, Quora’s “Be Nice” policy can be the most utterly WTF thing. The first and probably the most significant came in 47 BC when Julius Caesar took the side of Cleopatra in her claim on the Ptolemy’s throne and besieged her younger brother, the boy king Ptolemy XIII, in Alexandria. The O'Neills supported their FitzGerald dynasty cousins in that rebellion and had to maneuver politically to keep the English from toppling their power in Ulster when the rising failed. Eoghan Mór O'Neill (Owen the Great), King of Tír Eoghan (Tyrone) from 1432 to 1456 had four sons who each started independent lines. “Scientific advancement was at a virtual standstill during the middle ages.” Right . http://theskepticzone.blogspot.com/2016/05/the-lie-that-never-dies-christian.html. Vespasian established one in the Temple of Peace in 70 AD, but probably the largest of the Roman libraries was that of Trajan in his new forum beside the famous column that celebrates his Dacian wars. Dublin POS no. It is estimated by Trinity College that the specific gene 'break' with the rest of the O'Neills of Ulster was either Aedh Macaomh Toinleasg O'Neill, King of Cenel Eoghain from 1176 to 1177, or his father, Muircheartach Muighe Line O'Neill. Eunapius’ account in his Lives of the Philosophers runs to 548 words in English translation. It doesn’t take much thought, however, to realise this makes absolutely no sense. Ammianus is muddling the Serapeum with the main Mouseion library with his reference to Caesar’s fire and the mythical “700,000” books, but the rest of his description is detailed and unique to his work in many respects. Typically, actually, ancient libraries did nothing of the sort. Sidney, H., Sir Henry Sidney's Memoir of his government of Ireland 1583, Ulster Journal of Archaeology, First series, Vol. If the contents Great Library were destroyed – even if slowly over time rather than by Christian pyromaniacs – how be so sure that there were not more scholarly works by perhaps now unknown scholars might have been contained within it? Likely the most important in Ancient World. III, 1855, p. 46. Lord O'Neill was the patrilineal great-great-great-grandson of John Chichester, younger brother of Arthur Chichester, 2nd Earl of Donegall. Of course, these scholars were polymaths and most of them would probably have ranged over many topics including areas of mathematics and natural philosophy; Eratosthenes himself was nicknamed “Beta” because he covered so many disciplines he was something of a jack of all trades and master of none, so his colleagues mocked him as “Number 2” in all subjects. He did not share the moderate relationship with the English that his father had cultivated. Clan Ó Ceallaigh-related to the Uí Néill. The London Gazette. Serapis was a Greek-Egyptian hybrid deity, combining Zeus and Osiris, and his cult and temple were extremely popular in Ptolemaic Alexandria. It’s part of why I enjoyed you upbraiding them so effectively. He married Manuela de Castilla Quevedo, the daughter of a Spanish noble family, in 1819. “It was a centre for the study of science and its loss set back technology by a thousand years.”. [citation needed]. Another of dozens of historical factors to consider here, is that the various contemporary statements about the Alexandria library, are spaced out over a period of 400 years. 758. Furthermore, he claims “by ‘science’ you really mean theistic philosophy,” which is BULLSHIT. They often claim, for example, that Hero of Alexandria worked at the Great Library and that he invented the steam engine. The answer lies not in the evidence about the Great Library, but in the history of its daughter library and annex in the Serapeum. And you somehow think that means there was a library there in 386? Trajan’s library also seems to have established a design and layout that would be the model for libraries for centuries: a hall with desks and tables for readers with books in niches or shelves around the walls and on a mezzanine level. This works for some other ancient libraries for which we have surveyable remains, but unfortunately that is not the case for the Mouseion, given that archaeologists still have to guess where exactly it stood. Hugh Rua eventually succeeded to the title of Earl of Tyrone and upon Turlough's death, became The O'Neill Mor himself. There is no discrepancy. It’s possibly not coincidental that George was a well-known book collector with an extensive library. Unfortunately the story is a little too neat and is actually cobbled together from some fragments of information that could just as easily be read in other ways. Why is this guy so hellbent on spliting hair. The traditional title of the head of this family branch is The O'Neill Buidhe or The O'Neill of Clannabuidhe. [15] His grandson William anglicized the name to Johnson. “Rival” may not be exact, but there is nothing to indicate that the Alexandrine Library was 15 times bigger than its rival. Footnote no. Socrates Scholasticus, who condemned the death of Hypatia, was a Novatian “heretic” and thus no fan of the bishop Theophilus, who urged on the crowd at the temple’s demolition, yet he makes no mention of a library. The family seat is Shane's Castle, near Randalstown, County Antrim where they are involved in the commercial cattle business. It’s the ransacking that is more substantially relevant here, however. You can also subscribe without commenting. He was talking about the city, not the Empire. The moral of this story has added impact if the Great Library ends in a violent catastrophe, so this is the story that tends to get told by those who use the tale as a stick with which to beat Christianity. Interesting. Roger S. Bagnell notes that the “widest claims [to the Library storing universal knowledge], however, come in late Christian sources and may be no more than embellishments” (Bagnell, p. 361, n. 53). All descend from one of the last chiefs of the O'Neills of Tyrone. Micheline Kearney Walsh (1988).  Likewise Sagan says Archimedes worked there, but there is no clear evidence for this and what little we know of Archimedes’ life indicates he spent it in Syracuse. His Decline and Fall became a best-seller and, for all its many historiographical faults, is still rightly regarded as an English literary masterpiece. . Every building in the classical world had a function that we would today call religious, from the sacred hearths and shrines of the lares in houses to the boundary stones dedicated to terminus to the great temples and every political or administrative office had some form of priestly duties. Sixteen years later in 1583 a confederation of the brothers met at the court of their uncle, the Chief of the MacLean clan in the Scottish isles. Today the clan recognizes McShane, Johnson, Johnston, and Shane as elements of the family and are still active and viable in Ulster, America, and Australia. [51] The original Gaelic surname of the Highland Livingstones suggests that they were also descendants. πολλὰ can mean many or most.